Curse

Kool Kirby · Jun 14, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Speaking of Hero Battles, you need to nerf priority on Pets...the mercenaries will ALWAYS go for them, even if u flag them and force them to follow you AND if you kill the pet. Heroes will go for them EVEN WHEN THEIR TARGET IS LOCKED (in some cases).

Ka Tet · Jun 14, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dione Davore

I'm only a bit dissapointed that they don't do anything against ritu-spikes now and decided to take a look a bit longer. It's quite annoying that every ritualist spike that sees that they are losing starts running around like crazy.

preach on im with you there, first you have one person destroying spirits and 2 people trying to get thru the maze of spirits bodies and rifts to get to their vital and one person to pressure their caller, all the while surviving overpowered spikes just to have their entire team kite with potent self heals until they get to a point where they can reassemble, then you can start over with hopefully a little dp on their vital and on their caller too if youre lucky, "hello half hour battle against an over powered spike, hope your prot monk and infuser had some caffeine theyre gonna need it"

byte1 · Jun 14, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

I never thought I'd say it, but I think its finally time to divorce PvP from PvE in terms of skill balancing. Have both use the same skills obviously, but the skills would function a bit differently and be balanced a bit differently in each. The play modes no longer work together such as to be balanced as one.

!!!AMEN I been saying this for a LONG time...
but you know as well as I do. your statement makes sense and Anet will never do that..

dsielschott · Jun 14, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

prove they are broken!?

gfg

The GvG guilds have had to suffer how many months of the Reapers mark Nec, Migraine mes, Apply burning arrow ranger build?

Heart of Ashes and Dust [HAnD] reached no1 position on the ladder before ATS came into action. Guess what build they had run nonstop to pass all other seasoned guilds like vD, eF etc... yes HEXES.

futile discussions regarding the terrible state of play regarding hexes has culminated in the collapse of top level gvg. How many top 30 guilds from before the massive hex update are still playing? Soooo many of the top GvG guilds are inactive because of this issue. Are you not concerned that so many of the older top level gvg guilds have made way for the newer less experienced ones? The integrity of GW GvG hinges on the commitment of the guilds to play season after season... its such a shame that so many guilds have decided its not worth playing anymore. It might be natural for the old to give way to the new... but its almost as if this change has been forced onto these guilds... they moved on because they no longer felt gw was about skill... but about the build. Run a hex build or run its counter... anything else just fails.

It was forseen... in the massive january update that for some reason you guys were encouraging a hex meta. The update boosted so many hexes and the following skill balance a few months later did nothing to address the new meta you had forced onto us.

It is such a slap in the face that you can come here and ask players to use this week as the time to finally prove that things are as bad as they claim. Look at whats happened to the pvp community, look at the state of gvg... go talk to the players in the top 20. The GWP on MiRC has been a great source of feedback about the impact of skills on pvp... have you ever personally visited that chat channel?

Its no longer the time for us to SHOW you whats wrong and whats broken... its plain obvious and there are countless posts on every main GW fan forum stating clearly the problems. I personally am quite tired of repeating the same mantras over and over again. Hexes are imbalanced... solve the problem! You very rarely listen to the opinions of the most respected posters for this game so why would any of them feel motivated to provide yet more feedback... about issues they identified almost 4-5 months ago!

well if u dont like it dont play......or step up your game and be the one to come up with the build to stop the hexes build....thats what good players do, they find a way around ANY problem that they face.

I feel that most of these mesmer changes were to hlep include more of them into PvE. (ever think of that)

they cant just focus on what u want. There are millions of people playing this game and they want the mass to be happy. Giveing them a better reason to play as a mesmer in PvE is a good idea.

and like i said if u dont like it dont play or find a better build(they come along all the time).....technically they wont lose any money from one or a small minority of players quiting

God Apprentice · Jun 14, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsielschott

well if u dont like it dont play......or step up your game and be the one to come up with the build to stop the hexes build....thats what good players do, they find a way around ANY problem that they face.

I feel that most of these mesmer changes were to hlep include more of them into PvE. (ever think of that)

they cant just focus on what u want. There are millions of people playing this game and they want the mass to be happy. Giveing them a better reason to play as a mesmer in PvE is a good idea.

and like i said if u dont like it dont play or find a better build(they come along all the time).....technically they wont lose any money from one or a small minority of players quiting

You made this reply to a member of [ugly]. They run balance. Telling them to come up with a counter won't just solve some imba skill balance.

Apollo33 · Jun 14, 2007, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Kirby

Speaking of Hero Battles, you need to nerf priority on Pets...the mercenaries will ALWAYS go for them, even if u flag them and force them to follow you AND if you kill the pet. Heroes will go for them EVEN WHEN THEIR TARGET IS LOCKED (in some cases).

I don't really think Pets need to be nerfed. I haven't played Hero Battles, but from everything I've read, it seems that this is a problem with the Hero AI. It certainly seems like Heroes need to learn to follow called targets, not just attack pets. I'd prefer not to see "Heal as One" nerfed simply because ANet doesn't feel like fixing the Heroes' poor AI. It seems like a really cool Elite skill for any Beastmaster to have. (Then again, I loved Enraged Lunge for my Doppleganger battle.)

I'd rather ANet not take the easy way out. I'd prefer if they'd actually deal with certain issues specifically rather than nerfing other things. Like the armor-stacking, for instance. I feel they certainly took the easy way out. They should have looked at all the skills affected and modified them individually.

dsielschott · Jun 14, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

You made this reply to a member of [ugly]. They run balance. Telling them to come up with a counter won't just solve some imba skill balance.

I don't care what guild they are from. If you have a problem beating a build you solve it by coming up with a better one, not telling a-net they suck and need to fix what they can't beat. That is how the game is played, ever changing and everyone is always getting better and things get more interesting.

So like I said earlier if they have a problem with it then quit playing or find a way around it. (because obviously there is one. If there wasn't, every guild would run hexes, and every match would be won by a hexes build)

TabascoSauce · Jun 14, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quantum, the problem with the 5 second timer, or any timer, is that SR had congruency with the MM or corpse exploitation function of the Necro. When a target came available, a boost of energy was made available. Beautiful.

If as you say, a group is spot on and SR was producing crazy amounts of energy, then the team will win with or without a Necro.

Likewise, if the team is going to lose, the Necro will not make a difference.

So that leaves the middle, which we have covered ten times over in the other thread - where were the dominating Necro builds? Your refusal to acknowledge the lack of Necro superiority speaks volumes - you are not critically analyzing the situation.

In PvE, the mobs are there to die - it is that simple. To be challenging and give the player a sense of accomplishment, but die nonetheless. Beating them by a wide margin, or by a narrow margin, is still beating them.

What we are telling you now, and have told you before, is that your armchair mathematical analysis of SR as being "crazy energy" is hyperbole.

We should worry about PvP because that is where people are matched in a controlled environment and feelings could get hurt. PvP players are not there to die as bots are. PvP drives game balance.

The crucible that is the PvE game where reality asserts itself as opposed to a calculator w/ "4.1 deaths per second = 672 pips of regen" nonsense, has shown that Wa/Ele/Mo are the 3 most efficient classes. I see no 'N' in there.

Nerfing the Necro Primary, what distinguishes it from the other classes, is not, has not, and never will be the right answer. ANet has fixed the exploit used in PvP, scheduling SR benefits - we all knew that was wrong. What you are confused about is the difference between a lab environment and field testing.

So yes, if SR gives crazy energy in PvE then good - the player is either very skilled or higher level than his bot opponents. In either case, they will win regardless of their class. The opposite is true as well, bad players will not win. So as Carinae succintly put it - "do not punish me for being efficient". It is not like everyone else does not have access, including the computer opponents, to the same skills. And funny enough, as you keep dodging, there are not a preponderance of Necros, nor did Necros displace other classes jobwise in the game.

If Necros needed a PvE nerf, then they would have been showing up other classes in PvE at their jobs, better Monks than Monks. They did not.

I have been saying for quite some time that this primary rewards asymmetric situations. You can nerf SR by upping the skill levels of enemies. ANet has acknowledged that they should allow for massed deaths, and they have. What a shocker.

I am still looking over the changes, and have not formed an opinion on the 3 in 15. But I can safely state that any timer is nonsense. They could also cap it by lowering the benefit, which would still be more simple and elegant than the timer.

So you should have given up on defending the first 5 second nerf, that went the way of the dodo as it should have.

Now see what I just did? I made a reasonable analysis - not quite a ground up but more than you have ever done. So, can you do the same? I have been asking for a ground up argument for the 5 second nerf you have been defending for quite some time now, and you have consistently dodged the question.

Well it looks like the 5 second nerf is now history. GJ defending it.

If you want to try the 3 in 15, go for it. You can spare me the quotewars though.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Series · Jun 14, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

Quantum, the problem with the 5 second timer, or any timer, is that SR had congruency with the MM or corpse exploitation function of the Necro. When a target came available, a boost of energy was made available. Beautiful.

If as you say, a group is spot on and SR was producing crazy amounts of energy, then the team will win with or without a Necro.

Likewise, if the team is going to lose, the Necro will not make a difference.

So that leaves the middle, which we have covered ten times over in the other thread - where were the dominating Necro builds? Your refusal to acknowledge the lack of Necro superiority speaks volumes - you are not critically analyzing the situation.

In PvE, the mobs are there to die - it is that simple. To be challenging and give the player a sense of accomplishment, but die nonetheless. Beating them by a wide margin, or by a narrow margin, is still beating them.

What we are telling you now, and have told you before, is that your armchair mathematical analysis of SR as being "crazy energy" is hyperbole.

We should worry about PvP because that is where people are matched in a controlled environment and feelings could get hurt. PvP players are not there to die as bots are. PvP drives game balance.

The crucible that is the PvE game where reality asserts itself as opposed to a calculator w/ "4.1 deaths per second = 672 pips of regen" nonsense, has shown that Wa/Ele/Mo are the 3 most efficient classes. I see no 'N' in there.

Nerfing the Necro Primary, what distinguishes it from the other classes, is not, has not, and never will be the right answer. ANet has fixed the exploit used in PvP, scheduling SR benefits - we all knew that was wrong. What you are confused about is the difference between a lab environment and field testing.

So yes, if SR gives crazy energy in PvE then good - the player is either very skilled or higher level than his bot opponents. In either case, they will win regardless of their class. The opposite is true as well, bad players will not win. So as Carinae succintly put it - "do not punish me for being efficient". It is not like everyone else does not have access, including the computer opponents, to the same skills. And funny enough, as you keep dodging, there are not a preponderance of Necros, nor did Necros displace other classes jobwise in the game.

If Necros needed a PvE nerf, then they would have been showing up other classes in PvE at their jobs, better Monks than Monks. They did not.

I have been saying for quite some time that this primary rewards asymmetric situations. You can nerf SR by upping the skill levels of enemies. ANet has acknowledged that they should allow for massed deaths, and they have. What a shocker.

I am still looking over the changes, and have not formed an opinion on the 3 in 15. But I can safely state that any timer is nonsense. They could also cap it by lowering the benefit, which would still be more simple and elegant than the timer.

So you should have given up on defending the first 5 second nerf, that went the way of the dodo as it should have.

Now see what I just did? I made a reasonable analysis - not quite a ground up but more than you have ever done. So, can you do the same? I have been asking for a ground up argument for the 5 second nerf you have been defending for quite some time now, and you have consistently dodged the question.

Well it looks like the 5 second nerf is now history. GJ defending it.

If you want to try the 3 in 15, go for it. You can spare me the quotewars though.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

100% true. 3 in 15 is better then nothing but more importantly, they finally KILLED spirit spamming, so the nerf was not in vain. Let us hope they just keep working on it until they come up with something that isn't a stupid recharge time but until then, 3 in 15 is fine I suppose.

Theus · Jun 14, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsielschott

I don't care what guild they are from. If you have a problem beating a build you solve it by coming up with a better one, not telling a-net they suck and need to fix what they can't beat. That is how the game is played, ever changing and everyone is always getting better and things get more interesting.

So like I said earlier if they have a problem with it then quit playing or find a way around it. (because obviously there is one. If there wasn't, every guild would run hexes, and every match would be won by a hexes build)

Well then Oh Wise One,Let us know what skills that will actually win agaisnt Hex Builds.

Oh,by the way,Please.Be sure to use the Elite Hex Removal.It will be the major "Roflcopters".

nekopowa · Jun 14, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Well then Oh Wise One,Let us know what skills that will actually win agaisnt Hex Builds.

Oh,by the way,Please.Be sure to use the Elite Hex Removal.It will be the major "Roflcopters".

He's a PvE nub and doesn't have a clue. Don't bother.

Loviatar · Jun 14, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Well then Oh Wise One,Let us know what skills that will actually win agaisnt Hex Builds.
QUOTE]

than you are saying hex builds are dominating everything?
which guilds are running hexbuilds anyway?

Quantum Duck · Jun 14, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

So that leaves the middle, which we have covered ten times over in the other thread - where were the dominating Necro builds? Your refusal to acknowledge the lack of Necro superiority speaks volumes - you are not critically analyzing the situation.

Really? I'm not critically analyzing the situation? I must be hallucinating when I see all of the MMs and SSs steamrolling 95%+ of PvE. Those blood support necros must not be allowing groups to bring one less Monk and supercharging the offensive casters at the same time. I must be hallucinating when I switch into an outpost as a Necro and have multiple invites before I'm even done loading in difficult areas.

Yeah, Necros really aren't superior... Well, unless you count Dervishes, Paragons, Assassins, Ritualists, Mesmers, Rangers in most areas, Warriors, and Elementalists that aren't running SF. I guess they're less popular than Healing Monks. That must mean they are inferior, and can't possibly have to do with the game being designed around reliance on dedicated healers that relatively few people want to play.

The fact that you say it ten times over doesn't make it right. I've answered it in the other thread at least half a dozen times, and neither you nor anyone else there has come up with a reasonable point against the answer other than to point to your original statement again. I'm sorry, but that's neither debating nor particularly analytical. Try answering the point instead of remaking the one it answered already if you want to move on instead of repeating yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

What we are telling you now, and have told you before, is that your armchair mathematical analysis of SR as being "crazy energy" is hyperbole.

Yes, you've made silly arguements before. And I've answered them before. Making them against doesn't change that they were answered. There's nothing armchair about it. I've DONE it. The math is just there to prove that it was possible for the sake of anyone who wants to say I didn't. Whether you choose to use the word "crazy" or not doesn't change that it was exponentially greater than any other option available. No hyperbole involved, except when someone uses a term like "infinite energy", which is fairly slight hyperbole in a situation where there really are plenty of cases where it's honestly difficult to spend the energy fast enough to keep up with the supply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

We should worry about PvP because that is where people are matched in a controlled environment and feelings could get hurt. PvP players are not there to die as bots are. PvP drives game balance.

SR is no longer an issue in PvP now that it can't be controled. The passive energy gains will be fairly mediocre at best in nearly every kind of PvP once the update goes live. Thus, the cap could only possibly be in place specifically to address the issue in PvE. Get over PvP. SR is entirely a PvE issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

The crucible that is the PvE game where reality asserts itself as opposed to a calculator w/ "4.1 deaths per second = 672 pips of regen" nonsense, has shown that Wa/Ele/Mo are the 3 most efficient classes. I see no 'N' in there.

And I see N asked for more often than anything but Mo in 95%+ of PvE. That has nothing to do with a calculator, though simple math gives me a good understanding of why it could be. My crucible gives different results than your crucible. So lets ask someone who can watch the entire game which is more accurate. Oh wait, they've already rendered their verdict and you don't like it, so I guess what you've seen in game must be more accurate than theirs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

And funny enough, as you keep dodging, there are not a preponderance of Necros, nor did Necros displace other classes jobwise in the game.

I've never dodged it. I've called it a fallacy, because pointing to a made up bandwagon is on a logic 101 list of standard logical fallacies. If you had real evidence I might be tempted to call it a point. You think the entire game supports your viewpoint. What I see in game calls you wrong. What the devs say about what's happening in the game calls you wrong. I see Necros steamrolling the PvE game. Quite simply, my experience and the observations of the people running the servers disgree with your assessment of what's going on out in a big world you can't possibly have seen all of. Therefore you need more than vague assertions about wikis (Notoriously filled with random crap only occationally matching what is actually effective) and vague assertions that the entire forum is against me despite the obvious evidence to the contrary.

You can't use generalizations about what everyone else is doing as evidence unless you can actually demonstrate that your generalizations represent some kind of statistical reality. Until then, it's a standard issue bandwagon fallacy, and completely irrelevent. How is that a dodge?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

I have been saying for quite some time that this primary rewards asymmetric situations. You can nerf SR by upping the skill levels of enemies. ANet has acknowledged that they should allow for massed deaths, and they have. What a shocker.

The other way to deal with scaling effectiveness is to cap the maximum without touching the low to middle area. Oh wait, that's what they did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

I am still looking over the changes, and have not formed an opinion on the 3 in 15. But I can safely state that any timer is nonsense. They could also cap it by lowering the benefit, which would still be more simple and elegant than the timer.

Lowering the benifit would hit the low end as well as the high end. I thought you didn't want to punish the poor struggling Necros. What did they do to deserve less energy from that one kill they fought so hard for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

Now see what I just did? I made a reasonable analysis - not quite a ground up but more than you have ever done. So, can you do the same? I have been asking for a ground up argument for the 5 second nerf you have been defending for quite some time now, and you have consistently dodged the question.

I have made painfully detailed analyses many times. Ignoring them doesn't make them go away. And I don't really need to do so *again* since it's been done for me. Izzy, paraphrased: "SR was giving too much energy, so we capped the maximum. Necros are still steamrollers." Until someone comes up with a decent reason behind calling this very basic point wrong, I see no reason to doubt it. It matches my personal experience playing Necro and having Necros on my team. How is "I see it every time I play, and here's the mechanics and mathematics behind why it works" not a reasonable analysis? Are bandwagon fallacies the only things that count as reasonable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

So you should have given up on defending the first 5 second nerf, that went the way of the dodo as it should have.
...
Well it looks like the 5 second nerf is now history. GJ defending it.

I don't recall defending the 5 second cap in particular. I wasn't particularly unhappy with it (and said so), but I acknowledged plenty of times that there were aspects of it that were commonly found annoying. I'm perfectly happy with the new cap. I think it's an improvement. I defended the idea that capping SR improves PvE balance. And until Necros stop steamrolling PvE, I'm not likely to be convinced otherwise. The result is very close to exactly what I hoped for, though one of the pip solutions would have been a bit better in my opinion.

Oh, and since we're giving snarky backwards congratulations, GJ defending the idea that no cap is needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

If you want to try the 3 in 15, go for it. You can spare me the quotewars though.

I'm already quite certain that 3/15 works fine for me. I'm alright with the current one, and 3/15 is a smoother curve that will let bursts work. I'm not sure what you expect from a debate when you use a term like "quotewars". What does that even mean? How do you want to discuss an issue other than to quote what people have said about it and responding to the exact points they made? I suppose making up arguements and attributing them to the other person instead of quoting them is better form?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsielschott

well if u dont like it dont play......or step up your game and be the one to come up with the build to stop the hexes build....thats what good players do, they find a way around ANY problem that they face.

Yes, and Hexes are harder to run at the highest levels because good players do run piles of counters. That doesn't change the fact that they are imbalanced, and that balance should be improved. There is a difference between "somewhat counterable by a build fully devoted to countering that one thing and worthless against everything else" and "balanced". I'm all for asking people to give it a shot before complaining. I'm all for waiting a bit to see if adaptation cleans up the problem. All non-scrub PvPers are more than happy to spend some time and effort adapting. But sometimes after all that, there's just no avoiding the fact that something is clearly too good and is hurting the game. It sure sounds to me like hex stacking builds are in that catagory, though I haven't PvPed enough in a while to say with certainty.

I don't particularly want them to destroy any particular hexes either, but a few of them have almost certainly been overly buffed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xinix

Why having all these armor skills if you can't use them.

Choices. You can use any one of them, as fitting the group composition and play style. You can also use more than one and alternate them. They just won't stack all at once any more. We will still have lots of choices of how and when to boost armor using a veriety of different skills.

Why do we have so many forms of degen if it stops stacking at 10? Same reason, and the same goes for pretty much all of the stacking caps. They are all intended to be individually useful, but it's nearly impossible to balance around unlimited stacking effects. Every online RPG I've played much of has stacking limitations on many or most kinds of buffs. In a huge number of cases, only the biggest one applies, or buffs in the same catagory all overwrite each other when applied.

Mr.Pickle · Jun 14, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Seems pointless at this point to reply but what the hey, right?

Necro
ONLY change SR needs is one dealing with spirits. Leave the rest as it once was, pls.
"You now gain full Energy when a Spirit you control dies; you gain no Energy when other Spirits die."

Ritualist
I'm very happy with the update to spawning.

Paragon
Pls buff their Elites. The class might be a pain in PvP but in PvE they need some help.

All chat/Trade channel
Tighter enforcement seems likely a ineffective measure in the long haul.
I would suggest focussing more on making the Search feature more effective for Traders and LFG alike. Many have expressed the limitation with Search when trying to trade but I still think this tool has alot of potential if expanded with better usability.

Just my 2cents

yesitsrob · Jun 14, 2007, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Paragon
Pls buff their Elites. The class might be a pain in PvP but in PvE they need some help

They don't though. Paragons are extremely solid PVE class, the community just doesn't realise this because they are bad.

Skill like Defensive Anthem and They're On Fire are amazing in PVE. Paragons can currently make a teams defense retardedly good in PVP, and they can do exactly the same thing in PVP, while at the same time putting out decent damage.

When people bitch about mesmers being bad in PVE, it's acceptable, because they actually are trash in PVE, paragon's aren't, it's just too bad 96% of the people that play this game still fail after it's been out for 2 years.

Bryant Again · Jun 14, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

When people bitch about mesmers being bad in PVE, it's acceptable, because they actually are trash in PVE, paragon's aren't, it's just too bad 96% of the people that play this game still fail after it's been out for 2 years.

Mesmers are fine. It's the way PvE is set up that's trash.

And yes, Paragons are fine. I just can't play one without a sword (Spears are for cowards).

yesitsrob · Jun 14, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Mesmers are fine. It's the way PvE is set up that's trash.

I am aware of that.

Bryant Again · Jun 14, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

I am aware of that.

: (

*Sigh* Oh wells...Maybe they'll be wicked awesome in the sequel. I think they'd be the most fun class to solo with.

WildmouseX · Jun 14, 2007, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Well then Oh Wise One,Let us know what skills that will actually win agaisnt Hex Builds.

skill inertupts - we can't hex you if you interupt our skills

Power Spike: Signet of Disruption: Leech Signet: Power Drain: Web of Disruption

skill interupts / skill denial - we can't hex you if you stop all of our skills and make them take forever to recharge

Arcane Larceny: Arcane Thievery: Blackout: Cry of Frustration: Diversion: Mistrust: Power Block (<- as a necro hexer, this one is super nasty): Psychic Distraction:

skill interupts/ energy drain's - we can't hex you if you stop all of our skills and drain all of our energy.
Power Flux: Power Leak: Price of Pride: Arcane Languor (<- another nasty one): Power Leech:

Hex removal - you want to remove hex's you say???
Shatter Hex: Hex Eater Signet (<- group removal): Inspired Hex: Revealed Hex: Expel Hexes (<-removes up to 2 hex's off 1 ally)

Hex Denial - anyone can be imune to hex's, make mes your secondary and carry this-
Hex Breaker

other stuff - stuff that doesn't fall into above catigories, but are still usefull
Arcane Conundrum - all spells take twice as long to cast. reduces how many hex's we can throw.
Frustration - same as above, + damage everytime you interupt him
Migraine - 1-3 health degeneration + 100% longer spell casting
Signet of Humility - disable targets elite skill for 1-16 seconds.

Holy cow, would you look at that - an entire class that is usually passed up in PvP, dedicated to doing exactly what you are whineing and crying about. and if you still can't bring yourself to bring along a core class character in your team, rangers are chaulk full of inerupts, and monks have quite a few hex removal skills to boot - allbeit netiher are as good as shutting down a hex necro as the mes is.

__________________________________________________
(check out mouse's zodiac clearence sale http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...03#post2893103)

TabascoSauce · Jun 14, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Hehe I think you are misnamed - you should be "Quote'em Duck"

All you can do is respond to my talking points, and you claim that this is a debate. Now, that is comedy. Like icymanipulator has demonstrated, you like to refer to ANet as being the ultimate authority. Unfortunately for you, they have a spotty track record at being omniscient - check the 5 second timer, or every single FotM that they did not see coming?

See, per your history you then try and paint any detractor as a slavering communist traitor, as opposed to speaking the truth - perfection is an impossibility. Get over it, they made a good game but its not anywhere near perfect, and it never will be. Things that they do are not always right - in fact mitigation of the overdone consequences of nerfs or buffs happens just about every time they nerf or buff. See the Ele Conjure line - that has gone up and down more than a yoyo.

Once I subtract the ANet quotes from the war and peace novel you wrote, well, there isn't really anything left.

Just because ANet says something does not make it true. I have a different opinion, and I'll be darned if I am going to let you quote me to death to shut me up that this is a big mistake.

So lets try this again - Monks are the one required class for PvE. Generally, parties I see go out want a minimum of 2. That's pretty serious dependency there.

If you were right, and Necros were imba with superior energy, then why weren't they displacing Monks in the gamespace? I would think that no need for energy management at all would be a pretty compelling reason, if it was as powerful and imba as you say.

Oh, your objection that the community is not very smart? Try every FotM that ANet did not see coming and has to nerf.

So quote away there, Quote'em.

TabascoSauce